Hey, Richard. Bud Stratford here. I'm working on an article on small skateboard companies, sort of like a "small company roundup". I was wondering if you could do a quickie, e-mail Q&A for this...?
Hey, sounds good to me. Fire away. Anything to help band together the little guys and take on the big boy companies is good with me.
The man of the moment, with a bigger frontside on a smaller mini.
Whatever happened with you and Cruz, anyway? You were like, everywhere! Then: Poof! Kinda not...? The last board I remember was a collab between you, and some band...? Name escapes me at the moment, but you'll surely remember…
The Cruz story is a bit of a long one. Basically, I got hurt, I was told to get better… and then, I got cut from the team during my recovery. It broke my heart worse than any chick could have. I reevaluated my life, and just bowed out of "the industry" for a couple years to get my head straight. The band deck was with LAB, who used to be BL'AST!, now the drummer plays in Dusted Angel. And the guitarist plays in a band called Gusto, and does merch for other bands like Fu Manchu and so on.
OK, hold up just a sec there, cowboy. Didn't they have any idea how much coverage you were generating for them?!?! Thrasher interview, photos and ads everywhere, constant touring.... you were like, their "everywhere man". Who cuts a guy like that?! Seriously...?? Besides, it's not like Plan B cut Danny Way when he broke his neck, right...?
You have to remember, Santa Cruz isn't known for being loyal to their riders. They live by the "disposable hero" phenomenon...
Let's get the basic bio done: Age; hometown; where you're at now; and what you've been up to.
The basic answer: Richard Kirby; 34; Abingdon, VA; Bristol, TN; just working as a graphic designer, skateboarding when the weather permits, taking one day at a time, and working on not being so uptight about everything in my path.
How long have you been skating, anyway?! You strike me as someone that might have begun skating in the late '80s... but, you don't seem old enough for that to be the case.
I started skateboarding in 1985. So... 25 years. Doesn't seem that long, but it is when you put it in perspective.
It's weird: In an era of "street-specific" pros, you came out as a true "all-around skater" that could dominate anything and everything. And, you had a very Wade Speyer-kind of style. Who were your skating influences, coming up...? (Because, they must've been good ones...)
Well, I grew up in a time when… in order to get noticed with skateboarding, a person had to skate everything. You just couldn't walk up to a vert ramp and not skate, or [go] to a curb and sit down. If you did, you would get called out and heckled…
A lot of why skateboarding became so "street specific", in my opinion, is because of the media. For starters, vert ramps- and, just ramps in general- are expensive to build and maintain. Not every kid could have one in his backyard.
And the vert contests- if you really aren't into vert that much- really are boring, and don't translate very well to television or video coverage. It's really hard to tell exactly what's going on, unless you're standing on the deck. The mega-ramp footage looks like it can be a cinch… but, I know if I were up on the drop in of that, I would be freaking out… (laughs)
Simply put: Street is more accessible, and can give the bystander some instant acknowledgment when they walk up to a 13-stair, and imagine slinging themselves down it.
Growing up, I always liked people who oozed style. Christian [Hosoi], Cabbie [Steve Caballero], Julien [Stranger], and those type of riders who attacked everything. But at the same time, flowed right through, and made things look effortless. I always like Mike Carroll and Danny Way's styles, coupled with their technical abilities.
Maybe Richard should have added "Eric Dressen" to his short-list of notable influences, because the execution of this properly-done salad grind would have made Mr. Dressen mighty proud...
What were you doing in the interim, between getting cut from Cruz, and starting up Big Mess...?
I went through a couple bad years of confusion. Just letting myself get out of touch with friends and family. I feel like moving back to the east coast really centered me, and has let me see some things clearly again.
You seem like a pretty articulate guy, so here's a tough one: Why are kids today such pansies?! It seems like we're raising a bunch of lemming corporate consumers, instead of a nation of true skaters that actually punk out, rebel, and question things (like our generations did). Where did something so right, go so wrong...?!
Wow, jeez... I guess the first thing, is to really take a look at how things have changed with technology and the parenting skills in the last 25 years. Today, parents are their children's "friends", and not "parents". Kids don't get reprimanded the way my generation used to... I knew that there was a line, and if that line got crossed there were consequences to my actions. It taught me respect. Now, it just appears that kids don't understand that line.
Kinda like how all of the punkers from this generation are now having kids and the kids are actually rebelling from their parents by not being punkers... (laughs)
What honestly blows my mind, is when I see kids skating down the sidewalk… and they stop, and pick their boards up to cross the street at the crosswalk. I honestly do not understand this…
Why do kids seem so indifferent about things like, keeping American jobs in America? Whether it's making skateboards, or anything else... is it that, the media's just not talking about it? Is it that the kids don't understand the issues? Or is it really as simple as, the kids just don't give a shit...? Talk to me, man.
Because everything is instant, and completely disposable. Society wants instant gratification… and they want stuff now, and they want it to be affordable. With new colors, products, and graphics being updated so quickly, a person has to stay on top of the "now", or else they fall to the bottom of the barrel. And, life really is all about being "cool". It starts at an early age: We are programmed for the drive to be "cool", "in the know", and hip to the hottest, latest trips. The mentality is, "Who cares where it comes from?! As long as we can have it first…!"
Why "Big Mess"? What's the meaning behind the name...?
Because with any endeavor in life or company, things can always end up as a big mess. As you can see, I have landed myself in some recent hot water with one of my last models with a cease and desist from one of the "Big Five"…
I've always been a big fan of Devo, and that is where the actual title came from.
Mr. Kirby, mid frontside blunt. This is "skateboarding" in the purest definition of the word, right here. He's also got a photo of him backside smithing the shit out of some huge-ass concrete skatepark on the Big Mess website. Go check that one out for yourself.
You seem to have some really respected artists working on your stuff. Who are they, and how did you get them to be a part of Big Mess?
I honestly wanted to start Big Mess as an art project for myself, kinda like a big ego trip where I can put my art on decks.
I received such a positive response after the first run that, in order to truly make it an art project, it only seemed natural to include other artists as well. I look at it in a manner of how Greg Ginn ran the SST record label… his thing was that, all of the releases were art to him, and that is why the catalog is so eclectic.
I just plan on being fair with the artists that I work with, and giving them a fair shake with compensation. Most of them understand that I am just running this out of my living room at the moment, and they are willing to work with me.
So far, I have worked with Michael Walrave. He did the "faces" graphic that is out now. Alex Duke, who has a graphic coming out as a rebuttal to the cease & desist, and just a commentary on the whole corporate structure of the skateboard industry at this point. Lucas Musgrave is working on the final stages of a graphic at the moment, and that one will be the next release. I also have been in early, brief conversations with Moish Brenman, the artist who designed the Consolidated "cube" about coming on board, and planning on a release as well.
I feel really honored that such great artists are willing and wanting to work with me on this project. I honestly feel really blessed, since skateboarding is a graphic-based industry… and without the help and talent from these artists, I am sure that my products would go unnoticed. I am so very grateful for all of their hard work, time, and energy.
Your stuff is all USA-made, right...?
Everything that BIG MESS releases IS made in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I personally pull every [screen]print for every shirt, and the decks are grown, pressed, and manufactured fresh on the east coast. I plan and keep my hopes and ideals high, and keep it this way. As one small, independent company, I feel as if it is my duty to keep everything based locally, and within the USA.
Here's another tough one: I've heard from some other small companies, that they've gotten "talked to" by bigger companies, and told that they "really should be using China wood". Has anyone come to you with that sort of "advice"...?
Other than saving money, why would any one try to talk someone into using an inferior product, other than to sabotage the reputation of said company…?
No, no one has ever suggested that to me. I am positive I would be offended if it ever happened, and I would have to reevaluate my relationship with that person.
Why would some huge company even be giving a small, competing company "advice" in the first place…?!
I have no idea, but I am interested in hearing the story you have behind the question.
What's the backstory on those "Fuck You!" decks? (For those that may not know, already).
Let's start with the front story... most of the skateboard industry has moved its production overseas, and out of the country to shave a couple pennies off the dollar in production. It is just a statement to all the corporate, money-grubbing industry heads who are trying to make a quick buck… not only by saving money on the back end, but also by not "sharing the wealth", and passing their savings on to the customer. Don't get me started about the reissue market, and how much money is being made in that area...
The back story is, I just released a spoof of an old Santa Cruz deck. I spoofed their "30 F*ckin' Years" anniversary with my "3 F*ckin' Months" anniversary. I took a popular graphic of theirs from the 80's… which actually was the first pro deck that I ever owned, as a child… and minimally changed it around to better suit BIG MESS.
Well, the higher ups at NHS caught wind of this, and jumped head first into a cease and desist order not even 12 hours after the deck was released. They gave me some hubbub about stopping production and sales, pulling ads down, and the general, usual type of thing. Which, I can understand. I was also told how I was ripping off an "old man" who is only "living off his royalties", and that I should feel bad about taking the food out of his mouth type scenario. Again, which I understand. And, I was very compliant to their request.
Here's the board we're talking about, right here. Some goon from Santa Cruz quipped, "The hand should've been blue!" Comedians...
Skateboarding is a small, tight knit industry… and, I am one to make waves… but, don't get me wrong: I am not interested in burning any bridges. I still have a couple of friends who still work at NHS, and would hate for something to go awry with those relationships due to some business squabbles. But yes, all in all, that [deck] is a big-time FUCK YOU to the cease & desist. I can't imagine that they didn't, and don't, have bigger fish to fry than a small-time bedroom skate company with limited runs of 50 decks per graphic.
All in all, from a business stand point, the exposure was nice…
When you were on Cruz, all of your models were "popickles". But on Big Mess, popsickles seem kinda hard to find. What are you riding these days? Both board-wise, and terrain-wise...? Why the leaning away from 100% tongue-depressor decks....?
Most companies only produce what they feel will be guaranteed sales. It doesn't seem very business savvy to take chances the way a small company can take chances, mostly due to the capital investments. They know that popsicles sell, and that is money in the bank.
I have a feeling that it is going to be the little companies, such as American Nomad and myself, taking the chances, and building up the market for shaped decks that will [ultimately] lead to the larger companies seeing that there is a genuine interest for them… and then, jumping on the bandwagon to capitalize off it faster than we can keep up…
I like to ride more directional, shaped decks. It makes riding a bit more fun and imaginative for me, at that point. All of the same tricks can be done [on a shaped deck]… the only thing that would hinder [me] would be fish tails and punk points.
One of the shapes that I have out right now, is the exact shape and dimensions that I wanted one of my decks on Santa Cruz to be… but, it was never released due to the fear that market might not support it, and a loss would be taken. And, that's just not good business… (laughing)
Wait... so, you had a shape in mind... and, you're the pro skater, who's board is supposed to reflect your desires... and, they didn't make the board you wanted?! I've heard that's pretty common, actually- pros riding a board that's completely different from their "pro model" that's on the market, as "their model". In your estimation, how often is this the case...? Is it more common than we all think it is...?
On one hand, I can completely understand that line of thinking. It really isn't the best business model to be putting out products that have a high potential of not selling…
However: An industry like skateboarding… that is not only graphic-based, but performance-based by its athletes… I do think that the "pro" at this point should be allowed to have the final say in the product that bears his or her name. It helps to facilitate and form a type of branding and style that comes with that skater.
It was very prevalent in the 80's, when most "pros" had shapes that tied in to… not only the function of the board, but tied to their personal styles as well.
I would say it is a lot more common than one would think, that the "pros" ride dimensions (not necessarily shapes) different than the ones that can be picked up at the local shop. Do you really think that Peter Hewitt rides an 8.13" wide deck, with a 14-inch wheelbase…?
One also has to take into account, that the majority of these riders are also compensated by royalty checks of a certain percentage of boards sold a month. If the "popular" size deck that is being sold is an 8 inch deck, it would seem ridiculous from a business standpoint to release any other shape or dimension that would take you out of the "target" audience.
[Here at Big Mess], I am not competing with the "target" audience. I am searching for my own niche of people who want to ride fun shapes, and have little more of a "customized" personality under their feet than what can easily be had off-the-shelf. My skateboard is an extension of my soul, and so it should express who I am, accordingly.
Why should the average skater support Big Mess? Or: Any small, skater owned company, for that matter...?
The only reason would be to support an underground, skater-owned-and-operated company that produces excellent quality products, that are made in the USA. I feel that I offer a quality, original product, at a fair, competitive price.
Tell me something that you're stoked on these days. Whatever, you call it.
I am stoked on life, and the up and coming changes that happen with the everyday struggle of life and relationships, at the moment....
I noticed that you sell direct-to-skaters on your website. Are those prices the same ones that they could expect to find, in their local shops...?
Yes, I sell direct to the skaters. It is one of the only ways to actively be able to get my product out to the public. I am not into this to make a million dollars. I am into this for the gratification of doing something positive with skateboarding, and being able to offer a quality product at an affordable price to the people who need it the most, the kids.
I obviously sell my decks to the shops at wholesale, which in turn they can mark up a couple dollars to cover their overhead and electricity. I, however, generally will not sell to a kid in the parking lots, if there is a local shop that is carrying my products in that town. It is only fair and respectful to the shop for actually giving the kids a shop that I can direct any potential customers to.
Has it been pretty easy, or kinda tough to get into skate shops? What's going on with shops these days....?
So far, it's been a breeze, and I have been very appreciative to all of the shops that have shown interest and support.
Shops have a hard time competing with the online shops. It is complicated for them to invest money into product that has that potential to only sit on the shelves. Yet, when that product isn't in stock, they are forced to drive away potential customers into the hands of online suppliers. I feel for the shop scene, and I do what I can to support them in every way possible. I do see the irony, though. That I am just as much the enemy, as I am an ally.
Where do you guys advertise?
The only ad we have run has been in Confusion Magazine. It will be out in a couple weeks. Other than that, mostly just online ads and facebook stuff.
What are your goals? What's the future looking like from Richard Kirby's vantage point?
I have no real immediate goals for BIG MESS at all. Just one day, one skate, one session, and one lesson at a time…
Last question: Tell me something that I should have asked, but was way too stupid to think of.
(laughing) You're funny…
