A few weeks back, we asked small companies everywhere to send their basic company bios in to The Solitary Life, for our "Small Company Field Guide" series. One of the companies that answered the call was Broken Skateboards out of Canada. In the process of doing my research, I discovered that Broken really isn't like most skateboard companies out there. Because Broken is at it's core, a not-for-profit skateboard company.
Nonprofits are extremely rare in the skateboarding world. I've actually never heard of one. When I first read that, I thought they were totally kidding around or something. So I decided to get a hold of the owner, Matt D., and ask him a few questions. Just to see if they were full of shit or not.
Matt was very enthusiastic to chat it up. While I had his ear, I also took the time to ask him about some very common problems that all small companies seem to be experiencing these days. So, if you own a small company...? Or, you're thinking of starting one...? You may wanna read this piece. It's good.
The whole "interview" starts with a monologue from Matt, which pretty much explains all of the basics in one fell swoop. My questions were basically follow-ups, based on Matt's monologue. So without further babbling, here we go:
Hey man! Thanks for willing to do a story on Broken.
I'm not sure what to say about it. Maybe I can just ramble about it, and you can think of questions that all this rambling answers, so it looks like an interview...?
I started out skating back in 1987, and loving all the art of the old Powell graphics. I would draw them all over and over again. Growing up, I never had the delusion of becoming a pro skater... but I always dreamed I could do graphics. I sent stuff to New Deal, World [Industries], and Foundation when I was a teenager. Most companies wrote back sending me stickers. Tod Swank wrote back telling me I sucked, and to give up. [Typical fuckin' Swank...! -B.]
When I was in school and had my own place, I had very bare walls. So thought it'd be cool to hang my first board, a black Caballero chinese dragon, on the wall. That led to my collecting, and my involvement on SnB (Skull and Bones). It was on SnB that I got connected with Jessee at Conscience Skateboards, and I did the "China Bear" graphic that was featured in the "Disposable" book by Sean Cliver.
A few years later, I had a big loss in my life. I got really down, and tried to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. My "real job" was progressing... but when I'd daydream, I'd still dream of having my own label, and doing the graphics that I wanted to see done. I started doing some research on various woodshops and start-up costs. I was going to start Broken with a friend who was a graphic artist, but he backed out. He still helped me out with all of the computer aspects and logo designs.
My goal that year was to break even, and I was lucky enough to have a few local shops support the brand by selling boards on consignment. The next year I got connected with one of the better skaters in the community who helped me to build a team and gain some respect in the local scene.
The company is so small that the profits are negligible. I do all of this purely for the love of it, so I decided to go the route of non-profit and hook up local riders and give skaters an affordable, high quality alternative over the generic crap I saw being pumped out by the big companies.
One of the things I pride myself on is the quality of the products we put out. In an era of disposable graphics, we still put in months of work on each graphic. If it wasn't for the great artists volunteering their incredible skills on developing graphics with us, we wouldn't be where we are now. We also have our boards pressed by a local woodshop, so all of our boards are of the absolute highest quality.
The hardest part of running your own small label is getting shops to carry your products. We only sell our boards in core independent shops, rather than big mall stores. I believe in our product, so we have a guarantee that if our boards don't sell, we'll take them back... no questions asked. That way, there's no risk to shop owners. They always have new product on their shelves, and skaters have an inexpensive choice over the generic product coming from the big companies.
We only do runs of 25 boards per graphic, and every year I panic when the boxes arrive questioning how we'll ever be able to sell all of these boards. You'd think by now I'd have some confidence, but I'm always panic-stricken looking at the fresh stack of decks when they arrive. It's always a thrill when we unveil the latest designs each spring. We try to do stuff that'll get a laugh and reaction out of people. We do parodies, and we also do a lot to show we're a local Canadian company first and foremost.
A couple of examples of Broken's "parodies". Great looking stuff, actually...
This spring it'll be the 5 year anniversary of the label. This year, we're going to do some collaboration graphics with the local shops that have supported from the beginning, as well as (hopefully) getting out 2 new graphics on our own. This past year, we launched our website. And we now have T-shirts available through redbubble.com.
Things are looking up, and are more fun than ever. We'd like to get more exposure, get into more shops in the region, and keep expanding the team. Some people are shocked that so many people put in so much effort without getting paid for it. But the joy I get out of doing it is truly priceless. If the 16-year-old version of me could see where I am now, I swear he'd think it was a lie. Jim Henson had it right: "Life's like a movie... write your own ending".
Jamie Darragh. Feeble.
I've got a couple of questions for ya. I tend to ask sort of hardball questions, as those are the ones that the readers always ask about. Here they are: Reading your piece, it seems like you're sort of "resigned" to being a non-profit. Just because, you're not making any money [now]. But, what's gonna happen if/when you do start selling fistfuls of decks? Are you going to remain a non-profit? What will the profits go toward...?
Keep in mind that although I'm a fully spacy guy that's liable to forget all sorts of shit, I absolutely will remember the shit that I want to remember. This one, I will definitely remember. Answer it carefully, broham! (Laughing!)
That's actually a good question and observation. I had no delusions that I'd get rich doing this. I have a family member who owns a skate shop. I've watched how much they struggle to make ends meet. They sell skis, snowboards, and a lot of water gear. If they sold nothing but skateboards, I don't think they'd survive.
So I don't think I've "resigned" to being non-profit... I always knew going in that there'd be no profit! Money is always tight, so my grand corporate goal was to make sure I didn't lose any money. Ha ha ha ha!
Beyond finances, the goal was to design boards that I'd like, and hopefully other people would like. I remember seeing the first random person sitting at a spot, spinning their board, and seeing it was one of my boards. I looked like a dog seeing another dog from a car. I jumped at the window and told my buddy to slow down so I could be sure!
After the first few years of breaking even, I had some money... so I listened to what guys were asking for: Stickers! So I took the "profits", and made stickers. The next year I ordered more boards... and, they sold well... so, I started actually giving away a few boards, and selling to some shops at cost for contest give-aways. This year I got a website up for the first time, so that ate up all of the profits. I'm also still waiting to get paid for most of the boards in shops right now, so I haven't broken even yet.
Assuming things go well this year and I get paid, I'm hoping to do another run next year. But I really need support in the city that I've moved to. Right now, I have to spend more on gas to make the 4 hr trip to collect on board sales and hook up guys on the team. I'm talking to a local guy who actually introduced me to the team I built in Kingston, to see if we can't get something going here in my new home town.
If I can get things rolling here in town and I start making "Fists full of money" as you imagine (and I hope) then my idea is to get working with the local government and see if we can't establish a concrete park more in the center of town, or building a year-round indoor park. Canadian winters are brutal, and there's only so many parking garages you can skate. No matter what city officials do with skate stoppers and threatening skaters, they're still going to gravitate to downtown where the natural terrain is found. By building a park more in that area, at least it will be used. They have one park way out in the burbs that's good. Somebody who's never skated sank hundreds of thousands of dollars into another "park" that's useless and never used, that's even further out [of town]. City counselors hold that up as an example of why skateparks aren't appreciated by kids.
If Broken were to truly ever be financially viable, I'd like to see it as proof to city council that skaters can put their money where their mouth is, and contribute to their own park and it's design to ensure that it's done right. A really nice park was built this year out in Picton, and had Jereme Rogers there for the opening day. That town is about 1/20th the size of the town I'm in, yet their park is better than anything we have here.... and it was built by a buddy of mine from high school! He's an inspiration to me that with enough effort, something bigger than our own selfish desires and needs can be created.
Soren Chrintz. Gap.
Are your boards available in the US? Worldwide? (Since many of our readers are in the US, and in Europe). Where would I, as a US skater, start looking for one...?
I've sold boards all over the US via SnB. If people are interested, they can email me at brokenskateboards@gmail.com. They're $45 USD, plus shipping. I could ship over seas, but the shipping is ridiculously expensive. I don't know how guys in Europe or Australia ever afford to collect boards if they're found in North America.
I think I remember reading something like, how your woodshop is literally "right up the street" from your offices. Is this true? And, how convenient is that?!
It's not literally up the road, but it's not a far drive. Once a box is ready, it literally arrives the next day. They can ship me a full shipment for less than what it would cost me to send out 2 decks to the States, if that's any indication of how close they are. They're also Canadian... believe it or not, that makes a difference. My rep is really good, and he takes care of things when there's ever errors. (Must be nice -B.) It's also a source of pride to be not only Canadian-owned, but also Canadian manufactured. It's not only Americans that have a sense of national pride...!
It's one thing to be "100% Canadian Hardcore Maple"... and another to be all of that, and made in Canada. We make microbrew-sized orders that are shipped quickly, and on shelves quickly. If our boards were pizzas, you'd be burning the roof of your mouth on the cheese, they're so hot and fresh! (Laughing!)
There's no way the big companies can give people that kind of quality. I can't imagine how badly boards dry out and warp in a shipping container bound from China...!
Soren again. Back tail. Look how tall this rail is. On flat. Jeezus...
Here's one that I'm really curious about: Okay, you go to shops and offer them not only a good product... but also, a 100% buyback guarantee (which I also did, when I had my own company back in the day). Given that this is essentially a "zero risk" proposition for the skate shop... I mean, what reasons would they ever have for saying "no"...?! There's a part of me that's kinda wondering what the fuck shops are thinking these days...
You're not the only one asking that question...! One of the shops said they had a hard time selling my boards. That's not true, because I went back after a month when they had my boards, and the guy working the counter said that the 3 I'd left were gone within 2 weeks, and people were asking for more.
The same shop also said they didn't like the name "Broken". What?! And "Girl", or "Skate mental" is a better name?
Another shop was pretty up-front, and said that kids only wanted certain brand names, and he didn't want to take responsibility for stocking my decks in case "something happened to them". I think times are tough. One shop I've dealt with has changed ownership or management twice since I've been dealing with them. It's like making a sales pitch all over again despite an established history. I end up having to give them a deck, just to stock boards. My margins are so tight that giving away one deck means I have to sell three just to break even.
Francois Heroux. Rockit looks like a great little shop...!
Curiosity: In your estimation, how many "small companies" exist in Canada, today? Or maybe, in your neck of the woods? Because here in the states, there's like, zillions of 'em. Indiana alone... which is basically a cornfield in the middle of nowhere... has at least six or seven, and those are just the ones that I know about! Is Canada pretty similar?
SBC, a skateboard mag up in Canada, did a 2-page pseudo-catalog feature on small Canadian companies. I think they featured about 16 small brands. Most are either out in Vancouver (which is Canada's mecca for skating)... or based out of Quebec, where the woodshops are largely located. I don't know how "small" those companies really are if they're able to afford ad space in magazines, but they certainly aren't owned by shoe and surfboard parent-companies.
One of the shops I've been unsuccessful at getting to carry my boards once ran their own label. The guy told me how much effort he put into it and how it got him nowhere. You could see the resentment on his face. Whether that played a part in why he wouldn't carry my stuff or not is hard to say. I was originally based out of a city of about 100,000, and in that small city there were two microbrands. I moved to a city of a million and don't know of anybody who's doing their own thing with the support of shops.
I don't want to become a deck hustler, rolling up to parks and saying "Pssst.... hey kid.... wanna buy a skateboard?", and pulling decks out of my trunk. I want to support the local scene, and to do that you have to support the local shops. If you undercut the shops, they have no reason to support you. If the shops fail, then all we'll have are emo kids who don't know what they're talking about serving you in the West 49 mall shop. What are you guys doing to promote skateboarding, locally...? I've got a team that I hook up with boards. I sell boards at cost to shops if there's a contest and they want prizes. I literally hand-cut each sticker to ensure we have a variety of stickers for kids, and give them away (even to shops that won't carry Broken). I also give away boards on "Go Skateboarding Day". I've also hooked up guys with spare parts. At one point, a kid thought I was running a skateshop out of my apartment... which was kinda funny.
The real people who are promoting skating locally are the riders though. They're out there bleeding for the love of skating ... and loving every minute of it. I don't think you can rely on a brand, or shop to keep the scene alive... that has to come from within. If I can keep a guy rolling by supplying a board that lasts three times as long as other shit at a cost that's half the price, I'll do it.
How much do your boards retail for [in Canada], and how does that compare to the average shop deck, branded logo deck, and pro model?
In Canada, pricing is different. I don't know if it's customs costs, or shipping, or something else. Pro decks typically go for $75, while shop decks go for $50. I ask shops to sell my decks at $59, and sell them at a price so that the shops are making the exact same profit margin they would from any sale. When you factor in the cost of giveaways, stickers, gas, and now a website.. well... let's just say I'm glad I've got a day job.
Like I said, I don't do this for the money, I do it for the love of it and the creative outlet.
Why not big mall stores? In Canada... that would be West 49, correct? (The Canada equivalent of Zumiez).
Gene Simmons once said "Yes, I'm a sell out! We sell out our concerts every night!". He has a point. There's nothing wrong with making money. West 49 is convenient for kids going to the mall, and for Moms who don't want to hunt down some elusive shop in a "bad part of town". But, have you ever been in one of these places? (Unfortunately: Yes, I have -B.) There's trendy little dweebs and goblin girls shuffling around getting shoes. They don't have a clue who anybody is if they aren't in the latest issue of the magazines, or winning the X-games.
I go in there each time I go to the mall, just to look at the wall of decks (and to dodge the question of "Do these pants make me look fat?"). I literally heard a girl setting up a deck complain, "Why do they make griptape a rectangle? Why don't they make it so it's round on the end?" Uggggggh...! You think I'd want my stuff in there...?!
Each W49 also has no choice over what stock they get. They can't say, "Send us a Lance Mountain Vato deck". They get what the business center sends them. They also have exclusive distribution deals with certain distributors, so unless I've got distribution set up, I'll never get into one of those shops. And if by some miracle a distributor did offer to distribute my stuff, the cost would automatically put me up beyond the cost of a pro deck and I'd never sell a board.... unless I sold my boards for less than what they cost me. There's something special about having a board knowing that there might only be 5 more like it in the entire city, compared to rolling around on a deck that can be found in the tens of thousands across the world.
Remember when you could tell if somebody was a skater by their shoes and their t-shirts? Try that now!! Douchebags walk around with DC and Element gear all the time now. Broken is so small and so local that when guys go out of town, their gear is still unique and special. It may sound corny, but it's true. Remember Airwalk? Where are they now? Payless discount shoe stores!
Sometimes, being bigger isn't necessarily better.
Question: I see a lot of small companies (here in the US) basically circumventing the shops altogether, and selling direct to skaters via the web. It's not quite "out of the trunk"... but it's not really that vastly different, either. Do you guys have similar plans, as a contingency strategy? Like, if shops keep on refusing to carry your shit...? (Which is probably why a lot of US companies are doing it, to be totally blunt.)
I don't know. Maybe as a last option we could do that, but I'd rather not. If there's even one shop in the town that sells Broken, then I'll just direct kids to that shop. I also think the manufacturer would be pretty pissed if I did that. One danger is that by going direct, you also cheapen your label.
One shop here has a "Canadian rack" of decks... and all it really is is the bottom shelf where all the Canadian labels are piled up next to the discount boards on the floor. I think I'd rather keep my dignity and not have the shop carry the boards, than to end up in the dumpster shelf on the floor. Another shop does the same thing, but has a nice vertical rack. The Canadian boards are displayed with the same pride as any other board, but they're less expensive. Why a shop would do it any other way is beyond me. And why not buy Canadian...? Why should Canadian skaters buy boards featuring California pros?
There are so many rad Canadian guys out there now. Buy their boards! If I'm buying a Darkstar board, I'm buying a Decenzo or PLG model. If I'm buying a Powell board, it'll be a Hoffart model. DGK will be a Desarmo. I guarantee you, any kid up here who was freestyling back in the day was riding a Kevin Harris model. It'd be great to rekindle that "home town" pride again.
That's what Canada sort of has when I think about it... a national "home town pride". We're the underdogs, and we know it... but we'll still knock out a few of your teeth if you treat us like we're anything but equals just to prove a point...!
Can I ask you a tough follow-up to an already tough question? Skate shops that don't support their "hometown" companies... can you say that those shops are really "suporting their local scenes"? I mean, if you can't support your local company/skater/business kid... who can you support, then?!
I try to look at things from their perspective. What's Broken? Who's this guy who's clearly kinda old, compared to the kids buying boards? What does he know? How do I know if these boards are any good? Why should I sacrifice shelf space for this board that nobody has ever heard of, when I can put the latest pro model up there instead that I know is going to sell...?
These shops don't owe me anything. I try really hard not to take their rejection personally, but it's hard. But honestly, they don't owe me the chance to even talk to them. The fact that one shop took the time to look at the boards and then tell me why they weren't interested... I had respect for them. The dude who bought boards one year, lies saying they didn't sell, and then won't even bother to talk to me the next year... that, I couldn't understand or respect.
I dunno. It's hard out there for everybody. It all ebbs and flows. It's like an ecosystem... we're all connected more than we'd like to admit. I think the small shops are trying to help the local scene by just surviving in this economy, and have a shop where kids can actually go and call their own. I try to take any anxiety out of the equation for the shop owners. I don't charge them for boards until they sell. I give them free stickers. I put their info up on the website. I tell kids where they can buy the boards when I see them. Guys on the team do the same thing.
I sometimes think fear dominates too much of our decision-making process. I put in a lot of effort to ensure that Broken boards are of the highest quality. I also do graphics that are funny and catch your eye. Guys always smirk and laugh when they pick up our boards. It's an awesome feeling! I wish they'd see that if they're reacting that way, then a lot of their customers will react the same way and it'll translate into sales. Who cares if you're selling a Bam board or a Broken board... if it's the same profit then what do they care? With Broken, they have the added security that they have no overhead on these boards until they sell. It really is a win-win situation. You can ask all of the shops that carry Broken, if they carry enough stock, Broken ends up outselling the pro decks.
What about the media up there? Here in the states, the "major magazines" almost never cover small companies, unless you give them your left arm and right nut to buy advertising in those mags. Actually, I think I'm one of the few guys that actually actively seeks out new stuff that's happening. Is it pretty much the same up there? Little to no "local" reporting, just the same old "Big Brands" being covered every single month...?
The popular magazines up here are the same as in the States. Thrasher, Transworld, Skateboard Mag. We also have SBC and Concrete. Concrete is pretty rad, because it's free. Both of the Canadian magazines feature Canadian skaters and the scenes in different towns. But they also do stories like Transworld "Bones goes to Dubai" or whatever. A skater in Brazil is the same as a skater in NYC, and the same as a guy in Vancouver. The magazines are all pretty much the same but we definitely have a slant on the Canadian angle.
I haven't really seen anything featuring small labels though. I don't think there's much incentive for them to do it. Bones buys ad space.... so why not give back to them by writing up a story about their trip out to Dubai? I can't really get pissed off at them for not doing a story on Broken. What have I done to deserve any coverage from their perspective?
Caleb Lilly. It's good to see kids out there, gettin' creative with shit once in a while.
Your local skate scene up there... is it pretty healthy? Lots of skaters, events, etc? Or, is it kinda stale? What are you doing to keep it energized, engaged, and growing (if anything)?
There was a story I saw about golf in Canada. There's a lot of older folks who fly south to Florida in the winter. "Canadian snow birds" is what they're referred to. What they talked about was interesting. It was mainly Canadians down there golfing. Why? Because we have a limited season to squeeze as much summer sports out of. We seize the day and the opportunities around us.
Same with skating. If it's sunny every day, what's the motivation to go out today? None! Guys up here are busting their asses as soon as the snow starts to melt and they're wearing tooques and gloves up to Christmas and shoveling out spots. It's pretty solid. Winter's the time where I bust my ass with graphics and cutting out stickers each night, so I've got a stockpile come spring. There's lots of skaters up here. Guys are also skating longer now that longboards aren't shunned and parks are opening up. When I started skating I was shunned for being a skater. Now the cool kids are the skaters scoring all the girls. There's also a lot of local guys getting hooked up with major labels. And guess which labels are now gaining popularity in the Canadian market?! Bingo! You support local scenes, and you get back on what you invest.
What I'm talking about though, is the same thing kids on the East Coast would complain about. All of the major magazines are based in California, so all they really ever talk about are California pros. It's kind of surprising that that's still the case in the age of the internet.
