In 1989, Mike Vallely's board sponsor (SMA Rocco Division... later, World Industries) sent shockwaves through the entire skateboard industry, by doing something that was wholly unprecedented and unexpected in the "business model" of the day:
They gave their professional skaters a raise...!
It's true: Until that point, the "standard" skateboard-industry royalty (the number of dollars that a pro makes, per board sold) was a mere $1. And, every company at the time strictly adhered to that "standard". Realistically speaking, why would any of them even think of breaking ranks?! After all, that would only cost the companies more money for the same service, and the net result would just be giving skaters more "free" money that they probably didn't need.
Well, Steve Rocco knew two things. One: He wanted the best skaters in the world on his team. Two: In order to get those skaters, he would probably have to offer them something pretty damned compelling to jump from their respective "ships". So, he did what any smart headhunter would do: Waved a pile of cash in front of their eyes! In the form of a two-dollar-a-board royalty! Which was effectively, a 100% raise. And, so it went: Everybody with a brain in their head- and, a love of fast cash- left their current board sponsors, and went to the World camp. And the rest, as they say, is history.
As I was transcribing this part of the interview, I realized that in a very immediate sense that this might very well be the most "boring" part of the interview. However: I also had the immediate sensation that, at some point in the distant future, this might very well be viewed as the most historically relevant part of the interview, as well.
Why do I say that?! Because you- the reader- might very well read all of this, and take away the overall impression that this is just a whole bunch of idle bitching. And, I could see that happening. It's plausible.
But: Being on the bus that night, and actually talking to Mike? I saw more than just "a bunch of idle bitching". What I saw as he was talking, and putting these words to tape, was a wheel spinning inside Mike's head. That just doesn't come through in the transcribed record. That's why I take the time to point this kind of shit out, guys. It's important.
Mike's already on the record, saying how much he wants to re-write the rules of how shit gets done in this industry (see Part One for some details). Well: I for one don't see why "the rules" would begin and end with where your wood is pressed, or where you stand on the heat-transfer-versus-screen-printing divide.
No: I think there's more "change", just waiting in the wings. A lot more.
After all, I don't think Mike's gonna be very happy breaking just one rule, or two. I think what he's after, is to break every goddamned one of 'em. The initiative is clearly there. The desire, is more than evident. The only thing that seems to be missing, is "the plan".
Mike has freely admitted that he's not much of a "planner". But sitting there and interviewing him, you can see that: Yeah, he knows damn good and well what's fucked up about our "current business model", and how that "business model" treats the people within it. Mike has singlehandedly shaken up the industry before. And I don't think there's really any doubt that he could do it again, if he put his head and heart into it.
That realized, the question becomes: Will By The Sword be the company- or at the very least, will it be one of the companies- that ultimately turns the current skateboard industry on it's ear, and finally brings this "archaic business model" of ours out of the 1980's, and into the 21st Century...?
The questions continue: Will By The Sword be able to effectively re-write the relationship between the sponsoring brand, and the pro skater...? Will By The Sword become the company that everybody jumps ship to ride for, just as World Industries was in the late 1980's and early 1990's? What else will have to be changed in the industry, to accommodate a fairer paradigm for pro skaters? What will all of this mean for retailers, distributors, and the end skater-customer? Will other industry-wide initiatives (like MSRP/MAP Pricing, for example) have to be put on hold? Or: Will all of these changes fall into place at the same time, and find a way to complement each other somehow...?
At the end of the day, all we can do is wait and see how events ultimately unfold. In the meantime, here's Part Two:
It feels like, looking at skateboarding as a whole... one of the major things I've seen is that there's been a huge influx of older skaters coming back...
Yeah...
... guys that quit in the mid-'90s... you know, small wheels, big pants...
Sure...
... they're all coming back now. And, I think that it seems to be changing the sport, because the old guys are kinda taking it back...
There are some that are saying, "Enough is enough, we're gonna take ownership of this thing"... and I think it's something that's gonna continue to happen over the next few years. It's important for me to be on the right side of things, y'know...?
The last ten years, I didn't feel like we could really do any wrong. We were in the process of growing, building... sharing... promoting... but now I feel like we've reached the end of that line. We've gone too far into the fog, and now there's no identity...
Right...
... and, I have a sense of identity. And, I don't wanna be involved in anyone's foggy idea of what skateboarding is. I have to be very crystal-clear right now: I do have an audience and fan base, and they matter to me. And where they go in their skating, and where they go in their lives matters to me. And, I can't sell them some homogenized, "bullshit" version of skateboarding. I won't do it.
It seems like, one of the other things I've noticed, is that people don't talk about these things... like, what we're talking about here... like, y'know, "Hey, this is the way it is..."
People don't care!
So, you think that they just... don't care?
They don't care. This is like... even this conversation borders on idiocy to most people. Like, who fuckin' even cares...? You mean to tell me that guys are even sittin' around, talkin' about this...?!
(Laughing...)
Well, y'know... it's an awfully nice bus you've got here! So, it's not like we're grotesquely uncomfortable or anything...
(Laughter all around...)
Naw...!
Larry told me that you actually started planning this tour before you left Element... that this was a year, or a year-and-a-half in the making...
I don't know... no, no, not quite that long, but... probably last summer, I filmed my Battle Commander for The Berrics. And at that point, I realized that "Okay, my skating is getting back to a level where I'm comfortable with putting myself out there again". Because I had broken my leg five years ago, and...
Oh, really? I wasn't even aware of that...
Yeah, it really took me... well, it took me out for five years. I filmed this Battle Commander, and it was the first time I felt like my skating was at a level that I was comfortable with it being at. And I was thinking, "Okay, I can put myself out there again, and be confident enough to be able to put on a show"... and push myself. And, I dealt with a lot of...I don't have the same mobility in my ankle, I've got a plate and screws. The recovery on that was years. And physically, it's still not 100%. But confidence-wise, I'm back at 100%. And it just takes time, y'know...?
You just have to adapt to the new reality.
Yeah, yeah! It was a lot of years of adapting. And then through that, I just had to build myself back up, and I realized "Okay, just stay in the fight... just stay in the fight, that's all you've gotta do..." Sometimes you've gotta rope-a-dope, and sometimes you've gotta go into the corner, and take some heavy, heavy blows so you can sort of gather yourself... y'know? As long as you can endure some of those blows, then you can make it to the later rounds, and you can feel like "Okay, here I am, man! Back in the fight!" It's the later rounds that count. And if you ask me, it's the later rounds that are the most interesting ones.
You're a little more than halfway through this tour, right...?
Yup.
And, it was scheduled to be a month, right...?
Right.
And it's been every single day, hasn't it...?
Yeah, pretty much.
No days off...?
I don't really like "days off".
(Laughing)
You definitely strike me as that kinda guy...!
I just like to keep goin', man! Days off are just like... dead time. It's like, if we can be skating, if we can be doin' our thing... I get into a rhythm, I get into a zone... and, hey! If I'm gonna be away from my family? I don't wanna be sittin' around on my ass.
You wanna get it done.
I'm workin'.
Yeah...
You're workin', man...
Keep moving forward. So, you planned this tour... and I think there's this major conception out there that this is a tour designed to promote By The Sword. But obviously...
No. Naw, naw...
... because you planned it before the Element departure...
This should have been an Element tour! But, you know what? Element didn't wanna get on board! They didn't wanna support it, they didn't wanna give me riders... it's like, they just treated me like it's always like "Oh! Well, we don't even have to spend money on Mike because, he's gonna do it anyway!" It's like, they took advantage of how proactive I am...
Oh, really?!
... took advantage of what a nice guy I am even , y'know?! "Oh, Mike will do that! Yeah, Mike, we need you here! Mike, we need you there!" Well, y'know... at a certain point I'm like "Well, you need to fuckin' pay me to do that!"
Or at least help out with the expenses...!
I kinda needed something in here, to break up the interview... so, I figured that now would be a really good time to toss in a rare treat I found online. It's Mike Vallely's part from Powell's 1997 promo video. You can clearly see that this represents a "midpoint" in his skating career, halfway between doing what everyone else expects him to do, and doing whatever the hell he wants to do. On with the interview...!
And, y'know... the business of skateboarding is so archaic that... we're still living with an '80s business model, as far as how pro skaters get paid. No company has ever paid their riders to be in a video! No company actually pays their riders to make appearances...
What?!
Y'know, they give you a pro model, and they pay you your two bucks [per board sold]... and they expect you to drop everything out of a sense of obligation... fuck that! You sell my board, you pay me my fuckin' money! If you want something more than that from me? You've gotta pay me more fuckin' money...!
Well, talking to the industry people... I mean, this is a very interesting thing, because talking to them, they sort of paint this picture of "Oh, no! These guys get paid their royalties... plus like, signing bonuses... plus, a salary... plus, all this other stuff...!"
It really depends on who you're riding for...
Photo incentives...?
Yeah, there's photo incentives... but, basically, what I'm saying is: Every penny that I ever made from Element? I earned it! I earned it...
Oh, right! "And then some..."
And, if I made a million dollars from them? They probably owed me two million more. Because not only did I sell product with my name on it, I also sold the entire brand...
Right. All the softgoods...
Everything. And, that's where they take... that's where they rape you.
Because, they don't have to pay you royalties on any of that stuff...!
I mean, how many team boards... how many of those just generic...
The "logo boards"...
The logos, and all that shit... well, I help to sell those things! I sell the brand...
Just, by association.
Yeah, by association.
The Helium construction...
So, a guy like say, Chad Tim Tim. Like, his board doesn't sell well. Right?! So, he barely makes any fuckin' money...! And they go "Well, it's on you, dude! If you could just sell more product"... but, you know what? He's out there sellin' the brand. He's out there, representing the brand...
So, yes: Some guys get paid a salary. And, if your royalties hit that salary, or above, then you get the royalty on top of it... y'know? That's pretty much the standard deal. But, there's a lot of guys barely treading water, because their name isn't strong in the marketplace... but, they still have a presence in the marketplace, y'know...?
You still can't really have a skateboard company without a team. Traditionally, anyway...
And that still holds true, to a great extent...
Dude, the skaters have been getting ripped off since the '80s. And they're still getting ripped off to this day.
Guys who have good, corporate sponsors, and energy drink sponsors, and all that shit... y'know, you can't blame 'em, man! Because if they were just relying on skateboard companies to make their living...?
On their royalties...
There's only a handful that can even make a decent living that way. And if you ask me, pro skaters deserve to be rich. Why not...?!
Everyone else seems to be...! (Laughing!)
Hey man, that's the business we're in! We're in the business of entertainment, we're in the business of celebrity. And our peers in other sports, and in other walks of life, in entertainment... they do really well for themselves! So, why shouldn't skaters? We sell an entire youth culture. We sell products across the board...
And, the clothing...
Yeah! And so, I have no problem... it's just hard to have an issue with it. I mean, the industry itself created the necessity for skaters to go outside the industry to make money.
And now, the industry is like... did you hear about George Powell's speech at one of those IASC meetings or something... I just saw it recently on Shop-Eat-Surf...
What did he say...?
He said that the skateboard industry needs to take action against all of these outside interests that are trying to come in, and basically steal our lifestyle out from under us...
Uh-huh...
... that we need to take "Our Brands" into the mainstream, and basically defeat like, the Nikes of the world, or... y'know, the non-skater-owned mega-goliaths. Instead of the skater-owned mega-goliaths...?
Yeah, yeah...
But, what you've basically just said is that the industry itself sort of sowed the seeds for this, by not keeping you guys close at heart, and by not paying you enough!
Yeah. I mean... well, they want their cake, and they wanna eat it, too. And, it doesn't work that way...
(Laughter)
Skaters are basically, independent contractors...
No benefits... I mean, is that still the case?! No health insurance, no benefits...?!
No... you're not an employee... you're just, y'know... (Mike thinks)... to me, it's just archaic... y'know, it's been the same, since I turned pro...
I mean, it's pretty amazing... you know that I have a day job, right? I work in a warehouse, making under fifteen bucks an hour. But, even I get full medical, full dental, full vision...! And, all I do is drive a forklift around!
Yeah?
Yet, you guys are out there, on the road, all these days out of a year... and, you don't even have medical insurance...?! [Shit, man! I get better benefits than you do...!]
Awww... well, yeah! We get to be famous! But: They get to be rich...!
Right! And: Covered! Like if they break their leg, they could just go to the hospital or whatever...
But, if we break our leg...? It's like "Oh, well, looks like you're shit out of luck! We're just gonna find the next new little kid that can rip...!"
I mean, your medical bills as an un-insured skater could easily, easily wipe you out. Financially...
If you don't make enough money to get your own insurance? Yeah, you're gonna be pretty bummed. Y'know, I lived through the entire '90s without health insurance, and I broke my collarbone five times... broke my ribs, broke my foot... and yeah, a lot of those things didn't get fixed. I had to get surgery on my shoulder and my collarbone, and I didn't get it. I went to the emergency room one time, and that bill was outstanding until early 2000, 2001... (laughing)... y'know what I mean...?!
Wow. The kids don't even know that this stuff happens...
Yeah. I started acquiring a lot of sponsors around 2001... and people were like "Oh, this guy is a sellout, this guy's this, or that..."
And, you're still paying off medical bills from the '90s...! These are the things that nobody wants to talk about...
I was excited about the opportunity to play a role in helping to grow skateboarding, and I figured that collecting these sponsors and being put in the limelight and on the front lines was the right place for me, because I felt like I had a unique voice and something to offer. And, if I was able to make good money doing that... then, that was just whipped cream on top of my sundae.
So, what do you think you have to offer...? Like, if you had to break that down...
I think that it just really comes down to... it's a unique perspective. And it's one that is about reminding skaters, and teaching new skaters, that skateboarding is an act of self-expression and creativity. And, it's an independent thing. Which... as skaters, we know these things. We develop them... but, if your introduction to skateboarding maybe is the X-Games, then maybe you think that skateboarding is about winning a gold medal, y'know...?
Right...
I went to the first two X-Games, y'know...?
Oh! Did you?! You mean, as a competitor...?
As a competitor. And politically, I was involved... I mean, we, the industry... we were on the fence. "Should we go? Or, should we not go?" I said, "We should go. We should go, because it's an opportunity to represent ourselves, and to show the world what skateboarding really is..."
On your terms.
Yeah! On our terms. Well... now, I feel like we don't really have "terms". They just do whatever the fuck they wanna do, and... they've taken it, y'know? And, the industry let 'em take it. But early on, I thought that these things were opportunities to spread this thing that I thought was profound and sacred... and, I wanted to do it in a profound and sacred way. And, that's still my approach.
That hasn't changed much, over the years...
It hasn't changed at all. So, there ya go: That's where I'm comin' from.
